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McCullough: Are you working on a new project since the publication of Berlin ‘69?

Ibrahim: A new book will appear this month, The Nile is Tragedies. I was asked to write a script  about the tragedy of the Nile in 1994 for a film documentary—the script was never used. The book is the script with a collection of pictures connected to the political history of the Nile, starting from the year 1994, the genocide of Burundi and Rwanda and pictures of people whose hands were amputated in Sudan because of the implementation of Sharia’ law. The book is part of the history of the Nile and the actual problems of the Nile, like pollution. I published the old script as it is.           

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McCullough: Did your experience in East Germany and Russia (1969–1974) give you a useful perspective on Nasser’s version of socialism?

Ibrahim:  The dream was fantastic , but it remains a dream. Other factors were not seen before at the beginning of the experience, like the role of the state and the idea of the rule of one party, defined as the vanguard class. People were enjoying the basic necessities and you would never see a man sleeping on the street. Everyone had a job. You don’t enjoy freedom of expression; that is the dilemma. I saw this in Berlin and in Moscow. At that time, I told my friends, if there were fair elections, the Communists will fail.

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McCullough: What does  Prague ‘68 have to do with your novel?

Ibrahim: Since the early sixties the shortcomings of the communist system were a subject of discussions among communists: about democracy, cults of personality, theatre of absurd and abstract art! For instance, in prison we heard how Khrushchev, the leader of the Soviet Union criticized abstract art as “painting by the tail of a donkey” and at once we became two antagonists : the old guard and conservatives who supported him and the progressive young generation who abhorred him. In Italy the Communist leader Toliati started talking about the need for a radical change in the concepts of the party. The spring of Prague was a culmination. Dubshik for many communists all over the world was a new Lenin who was going to modernize the old principles. In ‘69 I visited Prague and went to the famous square which witnessed the Soviet tanks siege and Soviet soldiers were weeping because they could not understand the events.

So writing about Berlin in ‘69 you must deal with Prague ‘68. You are living daily the conditions which had created the spring and also the consequences.  It was part of the scene: local and international.

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McCullough: Why did you write about the experience of living in East Germany now?

Ibrahim: A difficult question. For example, Berlin ’69 came out on the same month and the same day as the Egyptian Revolution 2011. I was asked if there was a relationship. I still believe revolution is continuous process. It may bring some new advantages and a new elite. However, being in power creates a new situation and you will have to revolt again. For instances, before Che Guevara died, (there was unity between Castro and the Communists) he complained that Scarlatti, the head of the Communist Party had ten telephones! It gives you an impression of change within communism.  Trotsky also talked about continuous revolution.

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McCullough: Did you write an early draft of the novel, Berlin ‘69 and then return to it?

Ibrahim: It was not a draft. Usually I take notes about things that move me, maybe two or three sentences.  Not for a reference, not for the future, but to express myself. I kept these notes. The main point is that my whole career is based on such things, a machine in action: I try to reflect, think, understand, absorb. The whole time I try to put things down for myself. After this, I might write a novel. From these notes, I wrote two novels, one about Russia, Werda, and Berlin ’69.

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McCullough: Could you comment on the fall of communism?   

Ibrahim:  Many factors played a role in the fall of communism, not the fall of the idea. The idea will survive: equality. There have been many attempts to address this. The practice is human. The practice is connected to the actual factors  The idea is almost perfect but many other factors, like the force of the uprising capitalistic system, the balance of world powers, other satellite Eastern-block counties, The World Bank, and the ’73 war played a role in the fall of the system. What was the main result of the ’73 war? Not the peace accord between Egypt and Israel, but the opening of the market or open door policy, and the accumulation of huge amounts of money in the American Federal Bank, coming from the Gulf.  The boycott of oil by King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, led to rising prices, which then led to huge amounts of money in American and Western banks.

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McCullough:  Could you say how the fall of communism affected leftist Egyptian writers, like yourself?  

Ibrahim: The Soviet Union was considered by the left as the main ally in the everlasting battle with the imperialists. So the collapse led to disappointment and frustration. But it also brought some kind of relief. Because it also meant the collapse of dogmatic conservative conceptions of art: Art must do this and that. Socialist realism. Now an artist is free to experiment and wholly express his creative potential.

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McCullough: In Berlin ’69, the main character Sadeq Hilwani is a journalist in East Berlin. He is also a creative writer who finds it difficult to write in such an environment. Did journalism affect your creative process negatively?

Ibrahim: I don’t think so. The main thing in journalism is investigating issues and trying to communicate in a simple way.  Journalism has had an impact on literature starting with Hemingway—he used the simple reporting in his telegraphic style and he also utilized different dimensions of texts. In Egypt, Ihsan Abdel Quddous was the first one to break the bourgeois taboo, writing about the sexuality of women. To approach sexual life in a suitable way. When I was thirteen, Ihsan Quddous’ books were not allowed in the homes of respectable families. My cousin used to have these books secretly.

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McCullough: Do you think it’s useful for Egyptian writers to live abroad?

Ibrahim: Of course. It’s useful to look at our country from the outside. To be in contact with other cultures and other psychologies. Not to see your country as the center of the world. It’s also different if you go and then, come back. I thought of writing spy novels or mysteries when I lived in Berlin in order to be integrated but I didn’t like the idea. I didn’t feel comfortable writing in either German or English. If I am writing in Arabic, who is my audience? If you master the language, you can write in it, but one also has to understand the psychology and traditions of a culture. There are exceptions, like Nabokov.

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McCullough: Do you think the grim, political atmosphere of East Germany drives many of the characters  in Berlin ’69  into sexual promiscuity? Or were they influenced by the sexual freedom of Europe at that time?

Ibrahim:  I noticed in East Germany and Moscow the free approach to sexual life in daily life. But when it comes to newspapers and magazines, it was a different story. For example, in East Germany, there was no porn, but one monthly magazine was allowed to publish one naked, artistic photo of a woman. Scientific books on biology were okay. The official policy was conservative about erotic material. At the same time, people were acting very freely. Maybe this was the mentality of older people who were governing the state. However, the early communist writings/teachings in Germany and Russia emphasized the practice of “free love.” You own your own body. You have to express it and enjoy it. I had a feeling sex was an outlet for people, but not officially. Boris Belovoie, a Soviet writer of the 20’s has a scene in his novel, where members of the party are having an interesting discussion about having sex. When he hesitated about having sex with her, she said, “Don’t be bourgeois.” Of course, the Russian revolutionaries were also influenced by the sexual revolution in Europe in the 1920’s.

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McCullough: Could you comment on how you were influenced by the sexual revolution of the sixties? How did that influence your writing?

Ibrahim: My first book, That Smell, published in 1965 dealt with aspects of sexual life.  In one scene there is sexual aggression against a boy in a police station. I believe in sexual freedom, but no aggression. It should be consensual. I abhor aggression. Forcing anything upon children. And, the sad thing is having sex with prostitutes.

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McCullough: Do you feel that you are always being watched? Is that why The Committee, Beirut/Beirut, and Berlin ’69 all share this same theme?

Ibrahim: Yes, I do. In my house, there is a little hall and a table for dining. This table has four seats. I have to sit with my back to the wall. This is an old habit. In 1957, I was distributing leaflets of the Communist party and I was arrested. State security put me in front with the driver and the officer in the back kept beating me. Afterwards, was torture in prison for five years.

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McCullough: Do you think writers in Egypt have made a mistake by rushing to write about the uprising in Tahrir in 2011? Should they wait and take the long view?